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  • rebuttal

    Saturday, Jul 5, 2008 6:24PM / Standard Entry / Members only
    35 comments

    (update: i decided to remove the link to the thread to protect the posters.)

    there was a thread that was brought to my attention recently that i felt necessary to respond to.  here is my rebuttal to the issues brought up.  since i am no longer linking to the thread, i will paraphrase the issues that were brought up.

    ISSUE: racing shouldn't be considered art.
    1) we consider artists to be anyone that meets certain minimum requirements in the following fields: film, music, fashion, sports, performing arts, and visual arts.  while some may debate sports as being an art, we felt that a high level of skill at any sport qualifies (think michael jordon for basketball, david beckham for soccer, gymnastics, wushu, etc).  as far as i know, racing is considered a sport.

    also, if you've followed our site for a while, you'll see that we try to be more loose with the definition of artist rather than keep things too strict.  we want to create an inclusive community, which is why we accept artists of all types, from all regions, of all races/nationalities, famous or not.

    ISSUE: i have a company, so doesn't that make me an artist?
    2) companies that we list as "official partners" are either ones that we have worked with, OR arts organizations, OR companies that official artists on our site are involved with.  we're not just haphazardly adding companies.  and down the road we will probably break out companies into "groups" once that feature is built.

    ISSUE: all alivenotdead cares about is celebrities.
    3) our site is not just about celebrities.  if that were the case, we'd probably have less than 100 artists on the site, not 600+.  and those artists would probably be concentrated in the actor, singer/band, and model categories and very little else.  if all you pay attention to and fan are the celebrities, then of course you'd think that we're just about celebrities.  try doing what i'm doing and fan every artist and read all of their blogs/photo albums/videos/music ... you'll see very quickly and clearly that our site is much more than celebrities.

    ISSUE: alivenotdead is just trying to bring celebrities on, get a lot of users, and sell and make money.
    4) i don't feel there is anything wrong with trying to build value in something that you are working on.  but our goal isn't just to build up the site and sell it off.  we're trying to build something that we feel has a positive benefit on society, and at the same time
    we're happy working with good friends, having fun doing it, building something cool, and watching it grow

    if you're doing something for the sole purpose of making a quick buck, that's a recipe for failure.  if you build something good, that will have value.  and that remains whether or not it's eventually sold.  i'm obviously biased, but i think rotten tomatoes is a good example of this.  or youtube.  or skype.  or too many examples to list.  and when we were doing rotten tomatoes, because of the dotcom crash, there was a long period of time when we thought we'd never sell the company and we were fine with that for the same reasons i listed above.

    ISSUE: alivenotdead is just making their friends into artists.
    5) our site is also not just about friends.  most of the artists on our site i have never met; and i have probably met more artists on our site than almost anyone else.  the reason why it seems like it's all friends is because: 1) artists can refer other artists (and they often do); 2) artists will interact with the artists they know; and 3) if you can't tell, it's a friendly site!


    on an unrelated note, if you live in new york, please go check out kenneth bi's film, the drummer, which is playing at the ny asian american int'l film festival on july 19th!

    more info here:
    http://www.alivenotdead.com/kennethbi/NEW+YORK+ASIAN+AMERICAN+INT%C2%92L+FILM+FESTIVAL-profile-199094.html#comments

Entry comments (35)

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  • itinerantbloke
    Official artist
    posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 9:10PM [Report]
    Yup it's true.  I was brought on as an artist because I am such a HUGE celebrity.  I can hardly go out in public without being unnoticed.  Hey, wait a minute.  That's not right.  Oh, as for race car drives, I don't know much about them, but it is a hell of a lot more difficult than it looks.
  • bobbyty
    posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 2:16PM [Report]
    Wow. I didn't realize there was such a hoopla. well, can't please everyone all the time...
  • rottendoubt
    posted on Monday, Jul 7, 2008 11:46AM
    i'm good now.  just had to get my rebuttal out of my system.  thanks everyone for the support.  =D
  • janechu
    posted on Monday, Jul 7, 2008 10:46AM [Report]
    wow... I had no idea about these issues in the forum... I don't really keep up with the threads in the forums...

    sorry that these issues were raised at the forum... but I think your response to it was good... and I agree with you and the idea behind the making of AnD... (that's why I love it on AnD)... it's a great community and I fully support it...

    I hope you're not so fired up about it anymore...
  • Etchy
    posted on Monday, Jul 7, 2008 3:29AM [Report]
    I'm glad Patrick brought this up...

    The thing that bothered me the most is not the details of who is an artist or not -- is the cynical tone and what they were implying -- that we are just trying to throw something together to sell off and make a quick buck...   

    We have all put our careers, personal finances and, in some cases, family lives on the line for this website -- so its really disappointing to hear people talk about those of us in the AnD team like this.  

    Everything else - i think Phil's comment touched on it best.  

    ps - Thanks for the support everyone!
  • wongiewong84
    posted on Monday, Jul 7, 2008 12:54AM [Report]
    Well to be honest I haven't been on this website, that long. But this 'Alive not Dead' website set up by Mr. Lee and his crew is amazing.  Never have I came across a site, quite like this one. It gives us Overseas or ex-pat a chance to see everyone from all areas of the Entertainment business in a different prospective.  

    This site is a great way to interact and communicate with Artists, Singers and all kinds of people from other areas in the working industry. It gives us a great opportunity to be a step closer to those people in the Entertainment business, weather it be directors, singers, writers or models to be. At the end of the Day Artists, directors, fashion designers and DJ's are a people too. And this site gives everyone a chance to express themselves in more ways than one.

    Enough with the criticism and show some respect.
  • peachey
    posted on Monday, Jul 7, 2008 12:32AM [Report]
    You're the boss and you make the calls. You can make whomever and whatever an Artist here. I think the issues raised in this blog are thoughts that have crossed more than a handful of people's minds (and who couldn't / wouldn't commit them to print), even to those who give a hoot. Thanks for the rebuttal.
  • AsianChick100
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 11:37PM [Report]
    well said, rottendoubt. i don't follow the threads but i'm sure your message/ clarifications are clear. =)
  • vivo
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 9:13PM [Report]
    JS already said it all.. exact same tots... and is almost impossible to make all happy...

    well, SUPPORT! as always..
  • JoanneSanderson
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 4:53PM [Report]
    Unfortunately I don't follow the forums, so I've never read the thread in question, but personally, as someone who's known racing drivers and the kin, I believe they are artists, Art is a skill, and racing is certainly skillful. The fact that the site has artists from all walks of genre is what makes it unique and classy in my opinion. Also whenever i have had a question or indeed needed help and understanding, you guys have been great, and to me that proves that the bloggers matter just as much as the artists.

    Also please don't sell the site on...It won't be the same without you guys all running it!
  • shorty
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 2:45PM [Report]
    Well, actually, now that you've outlined the issues that you were rebutting on, I can see why you're upset. Sorry, I guess since I clicked the link and saw the posts, and remembered the conversation, I didn't read through it again and see all the things they brought up. Outlining the issues has made it clearer and had I not been a frequent reader of that thread and therefore been more familiar with their style, I would be 100% in support of you. I'm not saying I don't support you, but since I'm familiar with these posters, I know that they don't mean anything offensive by it. I agree they can be harsh at times, and I therefore do not comment on a lot of the topics they discuss, but it's just the way they express themselves.

    I totally agree with you in your rebuttals though.

    Umm, do I sound contradictory?
  • yulien
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 1:20PM [Report]
    hmm...if anyone interested, i put my point of view in my blog. yea...i nag a lot. hahahah!

    http://www.alivenotdead.com/yulien/oh+O...-profile-199982.html
  • DanielsGirl
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 12:23PM [Report]
    Flagday has a good point.
  • sirendipity
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 12:12PM [Report]
    I've not seen the thread but I think it's good that you've responded to these issues.  Hopefully, it will let the poster, and others who think similarly, understand what the site is about.
  • leandro
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 9:02AM [Report]
    the master spoke. is spoken. talking seriously now. Here is a very fun place. the alivenotdead are many people (not just artists), however, it seems that everyone knows the other. It's like a large square in a huge city, where everyone has seen someone. It's not like myspace, orkut, where nobody seems to know the other.
  • Sorica7
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 8:32AM [Report]
    i think it's up to each person to have his/her own definition of "artist", but we should all respect the AnD definition of "artist" when we're using this site.

    But anyway, u're so patient as to explain your position on all these topics.
  • gilgamesh
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 4:39AM [Report]
    They shouldn´t judge that easily without testing the site themself for good first !!!
    Patrick, one can´t make all happy, it´s impossible !!! ^^
  • xibanyae
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 4:39AM [Report]
    kinda weird, if someone finds all these problems why not just click away from AnD and delete it from his/her favorite links!?

    to me, it resembles more an internet "trolling" practice than anything else.
  • Seeker-09
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 3:31AM [Report]
    Good idea to remove the link. It makes it clearer the entry is directed toward the issues rather than specific people. :)

    Anyway, from my point of view if someone posts blanket criticisms about AnD (or anything else) publicly, they need to be prepared for a public response from the people on AnD, whether they be other users, artists, or those who run the site.

    I also think debating an issue or asking for an explanation about the way things work at AnD is one thing, posting inflammatory declarations like those above is quite another.
  • JRS
    posted on Sunday, Jul 6, 2008 2:29AM [Report]
    I love what you guys do....this is the best virtual environment ever.  Keep up your great standards!!!  =)
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