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  • business ideas for artists

    Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 12:57PM / Standard Entry / Ideas / Members only
    18 comments

    from helping to run alivenotdead.com, i've been able to understand the economics of the different art industries here.

    from my point of view, i think the indie filmmakers have it the toughest.  a film is generally much harder and more expensive to make than an album (or short film versus a song), and harder to monetize.  indie films have a very tough time getting into theaters, and no one buys dvds these days.  if they put it on the internet, they don't make any money on it.

    so i was thinking ... at least with music artists they can do concerts.  so, why couldn't filmmakers do something similar?  maybe convince a theater to let indie artists screen their work one night each month.  the theater sells tickets, and shares the proceeds with the artists.  that would be the equivalent of bands doing concerts.  and if you pick an off day for the theaters, the theater would probably have a better turnout doing this AND the theater would be supporting the local film community.

    or, for the music industry.... the way i see it going, physical cd sales will go the way of merchandise.  only the hardcore fans will buy it.  everyone else will buy/steal the digital version.  so, why not look at the visual art (or comic book) models and make the physical cds collectible?  let's say selling 10,000 cd's would be considered a huge hit.  what if instead, you made a super collectible special edition that you only made 1,000 of, but they each sold for 10 times as much?  you could also do the same for dvd's.

    or, taking it one step further.... what if you treated each song as a work of art (kind of like a painter's paintings) and sold the song to a collector?  if someone bought the song, then you'd give them the master for them to hang up in their house.  in the album, next to the song name, you'd list them as the owner.  put them in the music video (if there is one).  and any money generated from that song would be split between the music artist and the person that bought the song.  the owner could also later sell the song to someone else if they wanted.

    i know it sounds weird, but ... like ... doesn't everyone have a favorite song?  wouldn't it be cool if you could actually buy it?  or if you had a favorite band, and you commissioned them to make you a song?  the music artists could price their songs at a level where they'd cover all the costs of producing the songs, plus make some extra money as well.  and then any money made from album/song sales would be split between the song owners and the artists, but for the artists it would just be gravy since they are already profitable from selling the songs.

    hmm, not sure if these ideas are too crazy.  just thinking that maybe you can take what works in one industry and transpose it to another industry.....


Entry comments (18)

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  • snowduck
    snowduck
    posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 12:36AM [Report]
    "maybe convince a theater to let indie artists screen their work one night each month."

    Or ask for one of the "slowest" weeks of a year and create a small festival? That's how our local Asian Filmfestival was born five years ago (now Germany's largest Asian filmfestival).
    However, what I gather from the Q&As I attend here, indie filmmakers are not big on networking. Networking costs time and energy, and many need to concentrate on surviving while putting together their next project. Last week, I asked four indie directors (Korean, Thai, Chinese and Vietnamese) if they had means of networking across borders. They said, they only get to see and talk to filmmakers from other countries when they're invited to international festivals. I asked, if they knew AnD and the concept behind it. All I got was polite but totally blank stares. :-/
  • mariejost
    Official artist Marie Jost
    posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 2:59AM [Report]
    Desmond So wrote:
    "It's tragic, in a way, that a lot of (even famous) artists today derive the bulk of their income not from their art but from advertising endorsements.  If you look at HK movie stars, for instance, I doubt any of them make money from shooting a movie.  The sole goal of being in a movie is to make yourself famous enough so that the soda maker will come and ask you to be its spokesperson.  I don't know but that just feels wrong to me...and when I say "wrong", I don't mean on the artist's part.  I'm saying there's something fundamentally wrong with the mechanics of the industry."

    Desmond, I totally understand what you are saying.  People now make a living for being celebrities, not for being artists.  Art (pop music and mainstream film, mostly) are only catalysts to fame and, in and of themselves, are not really valued by modern society.  And we should ask ourselves how many classical musicians, literary figures, dancers, painters, etc.  there are that are not famous and so only a few have heard of them, yet they are great artists, perhaps greater than the celebrities that hog all the spotlight (and money).  

    I think for this to change, change needs to come from the bottom up AND from the top down.  The public needs to change its attitude towards art and artists, but the media also needs to change how it operates.  Unless we do, access to art will be come very restricted.  I shudder to imagine what the world will be like when all art is produced by people in their spare time because no one can make a living doing it.  Art takes time and a lot of dedication.  Artists needs time to develop and mature, and this is very hard to do when you are holding down a full-time job in a non art-related field.
  • desmondso
    Official artist Desmond So
    posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 12:07PM [Report]
    Did all this come to you in another dream?  Great ideas!  You are right in that concerts are the only thing making money for musicians these days so anything replicated on that model should work.

    Awhile back, I read an interesting article in WIRED.  Advances in technology (e.g., betamax, VHS) are supposed to help, not hurt, the media industry.  However, when things went digital, Hollywood couldn't (perhaps didn't want to) understand the implications of the new technology.  Driven by greed and resting on their laurels, the studios didn't embrace the technology fast enough and are now paying the price.  The studios COULD have successfully sold films online and made money Apple iStore style.  But they were too slow and greedy (they wanted the $39.95 instead of, let's say, $5) and instead lost out to torrent sites.  So instead of making $5 a movie, they now make nothing.

    Sorry -- off topic but slightly related.  Just thought I'd contribute to the discussion...

    It's tragic, in a way, that a lot of (even famous) artists today derive the bulk of their income not from their art but from advertising endorsements.  If you look at HK movie stars, for instance, I doubt any of them make money from shooting a movie.  The sole goal of being in a movie is to make yourself famous enough so that the soda maker will come and ask you to be its spokesperson.  I don't know but that just feels wrong to me...and when I say "wrong", I don't mean on the artist's part.  I'm saying there's something fundamentally wrong with the mechanics of the industry.
  • pokedpenguin19
    pokedpenguin19
    posted on Thursday, Jul 2, 2009 1:25PM [Report]
    these are great ideas but hahahahaha grrrrrr XD
  • mariejost
    Official artist Marie Jost
    posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 7:43AM [Report]
    Outside of a few major metro areas, how would the indie filmmaker thing work?  The two art houses we used to have in this university town (with the highest per capita population of Ph.D.s in the world!) have both just closed because the owner couldn't make money, not even when he booted Wong Kar Wai's Ashes of Time Redux and replaced it with the latest James Bond flick.  We don't even really have film festivals around here any more, just a documentary film festival (yawn) and a sporadic gay-lesbian event (never sure when it is being programmed, it doesn't seem to have a regular yearly date).  The multiplexes all seem to be scheduled through some central source and I wonder if the individual theater managers have much say.  I think for indie films to work, we need to have foundation and government support, like in Europe.  Indie film, like classical music, is never going to be able to pay for itself.  With a very few exceptions, indie films never break out into the mainstream and become money makers.
  • chrischung
    Official artist Chris Chung
    posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 5:31AM [Report]
    sounds like your onto something! I liked the Film maker idea
  • kenjilui
    Official artist Kenji Lui
    posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 8:33AM [Report]
    nice idea for filmmakers, as for the one about music, i think it is difficult to change the habit of the consumer, it might work here in the US, but probably too difficult to promote it to people in hk since they already get used to getting films/music for free online...
  • janechu
     janechu
    posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 2:07AM [Report]
    interesting ideas... I can see where you're going with it... Hope to see this come into reality some day.. =)

    I am one of those people who would buy the CD / DVD if it's a special edition... (but I still buy them as regular edition if I like it enough)... I like the idea of "owning" the CD/DVD.. it feels much more original to me as compared to a digital copy... it's not tangible...
  • chungtsang
    Official artist Chung Tsang
    posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 6:10PM [Report]
    Great ideas Pat.  Biggest obstacles would be convincing customers of the perceived values of the arts.  Charging more would only work if the product has such high emotional values for the fans.  If you ever look into how Wong Kar Wai sells his movies as collectors items (He has many box sets selling $100US plus) .  But he can do that based on his quality films and his fan's obsessions with his works.  I can go on for longer on this, but these are great discussion points.  Distribution and ability to monetize are very important parts of this industry.
  • brianyang
    Official artist Brian Yang
    posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 12:39PM [Report]
    interesting indeed.  particularly the indie film thing (i'm biased).  i could think of a lot of reasons why it may not work, but i could think of a lot of reasons why that's be great.  in fact, i think, i think, some kind of art/film/music/fashion collective needs to be started up and i want to do this with you.
  • musicnote
    musicnote
    posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 11:11AM [Report]
    Interesting ideas.
  • jacishere
    jacishere
    posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 5:45AM [Report]
    I like your ideas Patrick ;)
    I think that the indie film idea is good, perhaps the director and actors in the film would be able to do a meet and greet or a small talk after the film, that way the fans get to meet them as well (kind of like a concert when you get to see the band/singer in person).  
    I find it sad that no one buys CDs anymore, am I the only one that still buys CDs?  I buy an average 2 per week.  I know things are going digital these days, but somehow, the whole "package" that the CD comes in is much more attractive to me.  I like having the whole deal as you would call it.
  • MissScarlett
    MissScarlett
    posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 3:46AM [Report]
    ^^^ This my dear AnD siblings, is why Pat has "CEO" after his name.  Yer brilliant, dude...
  • tungtung
    Official artist TunGTunG aka DJ Miss Yellow
    posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 11:41PM [Report]
    nice nice, thx for proposing this to us~~ the 1st and 2nd ideas are very dope!! maybe i can draw the cover for my mixtape!!
    but the 3rd idea seems complicated for me to understand....
  • cyberdog
    cyberdog
    posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 10:55PM [Report]
    Are CDs really on the way out? I can't bring myself to buy those crappy little mp3 files that self-replicate like amoebas. Doesn't the quality of the format count for something?
  • Etchy
     Etchy
    posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 9:53PM [Report]
    one problem is that film makers maybe can't make films (even short films) at a rate to really sustain themselves unless the budgets are really low or their productions are subsidized a lot.

    that said,  the idea of personalizing songs is interesting,  its similar to those companies where they get famous people to make (pre-recorded) wake-up calls for people, etc...
  • dirtstar
    Official artist Dirt Star
    posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 6:22PM [Report]
    great article patrick!

    that's definitely the way to go!
  • silky
    silky
    posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 3:05PM [Report]
    Firstly I think the idea with the movie theatre rented on weak times to some independent moviemakers is a great idea.
    Owning the rights on a song sounds like a good investment idea...though it may be more idealistic...

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