Cantonese vs. Mandarin

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Cantonese vs. Mandarin
Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 4:32PM / Standard Entry / Members only
11 comments

Mandarin seems like the Chinese language to learn in America. Even among some of my Cantonese speaking friends or relatives, when they want their baby to learn Chinese, Mandarin is their choice. China is the future, people say. I used to expect most US chinatown communities to primarily be Cantonese speakers but seems like either Taiwanese people or Mainlanders are flourishing in this environment as well.

Growing up in America, my primary language is and remains English. Both my parents speak Cantonese but were too lazy to teach beyond their firstborn. They taught me a few basic words here and there but that's it. As a kid, I was forced into attended a weekend Mandarin Chinese school for a little bit but I didn't learn or retain much from there. I just remember an unfinished workbook and goofing off. Besides, an extra day of school? My American sensibility was too spoiled for that. Do I regret it? I do wish I picked up more from it and it would be great if I became semi-fluent. But I don't regret enjoying my childhood either. I'd rather watch cartoons or play Computer/Nintendo games all day.

From high school to college, I was also forced into studying a second language. I studied French cause a second language was mandatory and I wanted to learn something different from my bros (who chose Spanish and Latin). I think I've forgotten most of it, there's too many conjugations involved.

After college, I wanted to learn some Asian languages for fun. When it comes to languages, there are three that interest me: Cantonese, Mandarin, and Japanese.

Cantonese because that's where much my culture and heritage lies.
Mandarin because it's popular and the Chinese standard.
Japanese because it's products and culture are so influential.

The furthest I've ever gotten is by listening to the the first level of Cantonese, Mandarin, and Japanese from Pimsleur. Basic stuff, but it helped me understand much more than I used to. Even knowing a few more words and phrases makes me feel better.

I often watch many movies in these three languages as well. Movies haven't really helped me learn languages very well. The only things I learned from watching Cantonese movies are words like "POK GAI!!!" or "SIK SEAHHH!!!". In terms of learning resources, Cantonese seems the scarcest. Japanese and especially Mandarin are more plentiful. Unfortunately for me, Cantonese is the language I want to learn most. I'd feel guilty if I was better versed in the other two languages. I'm not very good at learning languages anyhow, my memory isn't the sharpest. The Cantonese tones are the toughest. The only way I could ever learn is through repetition, continual and consistent listening and speaking. And without the time, discipline, or even resources to learn I don't know if I'll ever pick it up... At least I'm pretty good at English.

Speaking of Cantonese vs. Mandarin, here's a trailer of a great movie series with a related North vs. South premise. From studio Cathay:
The Greatest Civil War on Earth
Video: http://www.cathay.com.sg/classics/civilwar.wmv

I really love Leung Sing Bo's comic tones and mannerisms. I agree with the idea that comedy is funnier in Cantonese than Mandarin. The "sequels" The Greatest Wedding on Earth and The Greatest Love Affair on Earth feature the same cast and premise but are unrelated. I've still been waiting a long time for Panorama to release Greatest Love Affair on DVD. The first two were quite enjoyable. Who knows if its release will ever happen. Who the purchases and watches these types of movies other than hardcore movie fans or really old people? What an unfortunate trend.

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lluu
posted on Wednesday, Aug 6, 2008 1:17PM [Report]

omg, this is the story of my life. i too had to endure half-ass cantonese classes that never left a mark. isn't it funny how it's only when you're older do you actually appreciate the things your parents tried to do for you. not until you've seen the light many many years later do you say to yourself..."damn, they were right, i should have learned chinese when i was young" haha... that's how i feel right now...but the good thing about learning chinese at a later age is you can actually remember the stuff.... it ain't easy! hehe... try watching the mandarin soaps... that's how i learn! "wo xihuan ni!!" OR better yet... watch the videos on youtube!
shorty
posted on Monday, Aug 4, 2008 6:39AM [Report]

I learnt my Cantonese watching HK tv series (and my measly Mandarin) while growing up. I think I was in my teens before I really picked up enough to carry a (short) conversation.

I went to Mandarin classes as a kid, but that never worked. Pulled out after a few months. I tried doing it again while at uni, but pulled out after two weeks. Problem was that they were teaching stuff I already knew, or didn't want to learn. Can't learn in a classroom environment, but have no problem learning while watching. But I'm not having much success sitting through stuff from other countries. Think I need to get the basics, or have someone who knows it sitting next to me.

Can't remember any of my French from first year in high school. Had a teacher that didn't like students. Told us we were bottom of the school. So I dropped it after a year.
JasonChau
posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 5:29PM [Report]

James,

On the subject of Cantonese to Mandarin translation, you may like to find out more about this program I've just found for Windows > http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/LingvoSoft-Suite-English-Chinese-Cantonese-Traditional.shtml

It's got a Chinese/English speech/text phrasebook, online active dictionary and translation engine for Chinese Mandarin/Cantonese to English and vice versa - pretty amazing stuff!
JasonChau
posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 10:15AM [Report]

Yes, and with those 3 choices you've chosen, those are also mine for learning languages. Japanese interests me, and I do really think Mandarin is the future language.

However saying that we cannot say that learning a new language is easy.....on the contrary it is tough! And to know say Mandarin have to be Chinese to appreciate the level of complexity of learning such a new language.

English is my first language and I can speak fluent Cantonese as my second. But with regards to writing/reading Chinese that's another story because when I was young I didn't go to Sunday school. At the time when I was living in England me or my parents didn't feel it was necessary for me to learn written Chinese, because a) everything we dealt with was in English and b) I lived too far away from Chinatown, where most of the courses were held. My mum did want me to learn but I didn't particularly have an interest for it at the time, and nor did I have many Chinese friends living close by, so as we didn't feel it was that important. But as the years have gone by, I realised that as I begin to make a new life in Hong Kong and Asia (I moved to HK in 2006), it is essential to have some knowledge of Chinese if it can help.

But I have no regrets about it. In the process of losing my own understanding of Chinese, over the years I gained much knowledge about the English language, British life, art, history and culture (I lived there nearly 30 years and half of my family are non-Chinese true Brits). And when it comes to things like business and computers because a) I studied for them and b) English was my first language I have absolutely no problems with them whatsoever. In fact I had my first computer when I was 6, and I started building my own computers around when I was 13 - so there is nothing that 'difficult' I see in what I do.

I'm in Malaysia at the moment on a short trip, and now being here in Asia I truly see the significance of all that I learnt those years ago - it is not wasted despite my lack of knowing written Chinese. In fact with my current skillset (IT, business, management at degree level) I see I'm pretty much in demand either here or in HK/China simply because of what I know. And the fact my English is good (I beat all my English friends at spelling!) is a bonus because, English is still the choice language for business.

What I want to say to everyone is, do not think that by not understanding a particular language you are at a loss. Rather see it as an opportunity you know other things in this great world, and rather than sulk and be sorry for yourself, seek to learn more and maximise the use out of what you already know. You may be more than surprised by what things you can do with the skills that you have already.
Hotmel
posted on Wednesday, Jun 25, 2008 5:34PM [Report]

I watch all Hongkong Movies with Cantonese sound track withChinese subtitle,then I can understand some conversations between pepole who speak Cantonese. However, when I try to show my Cantonese words with them, they have no idea what I am saying...Faint~~
rottendoubt
posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 7:46AM [Report]

i've been meaning to try to pick up some cantonese too. tried pimsleur but haven't stuck with it enuf...
Marie Jost
posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 5:17AM [Report]

Yeah, learning a language has its boring grind aspects, I certainly can identify with that. I just keep at it, 30-45 minutes a day, 6-7 days a week. Every time I watch a Hong Kong film or listen to some Cantopop song and can recognize more words, I know I am making progress. It may seem like a snail's pace, but the progress is measurable month by month. I also keep the ultimate goal out in front of me--I want to be able to listen to Leslie Cheung singing a song and understand the lyrics as he is singing them. It took me 6 years to reach that point in Spanish (flamenco's don't pronounce words like any language course), but I made it! With Cantonese, I don't have to learn the standard language and then learn a highly idiosyncratic regional variant to reach my goal. I don't have to memorize hundreds of irregular verbs (in 2 modes and about 18 tenses), irregular adjectives, 52 ways to say the same thing--all different depending on which country or region you are in. All of that time I can spend on actually learning how to speak and read and write. I so love the simplified grammar in Cantonese. I can do this, I know I can do this. Last night I understood an entire phrase in a movie and was able to give my husband the literal translation versus how it was rendered in the subtitles (which gave what was said an entirely different character than what the subs could communicate). It is tiny milestones like this that give me the ability to soldier on. Also, I am in love with the look of Chinese characters. I love learning to draw them and I love how they look on the page of a book or on a scroll or painting. So much inspiration to learn how to read them. I just wonder why it took me so long to discover this marvelous language?
James Mar
posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 1:56AM

I could learn a word a day, and then forget it two days later. :P I still do have resources I haven't totally exhausted in mastering. I just haven't made it a priority to do. Sometimes, I'd get bored with it or wonder if I'm learning the most practical lessons. It's one of those things I want to do eventually.
peachey
posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 11:45PM [Report]

I haven't heard of the Great Love Affair. It's a hoot, huh?

I had the 5 days/week Cantonese instruction after English school. Fell out of it in the 4th grade. It got hard and my enthusiasm waned. I think mandarin is the future and I'm learning the simplified characters with my little girl. This old noggin is still working - so glad I've retained some. haha.

I, too, also studied French in junior and high schools. Then I took a semester in college to fulfill my language requirement. Of course I took basic French for the grade. I can hardly say anything in French. Sad.
Marie Jost
posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 9:34PM [Report]

I know your pain and confusion--but I just grabbed the Pimsleur Cantonese course and jumped in. (I am not Asian and didn't grow up hearing any Asian languages as a child, so you have it over me there.) Don't dismiss the "easy" stuff. Mastering the easy stuff, all of it, perfectly, is the perfect platform for future study. You say the tones are your weakest point--well, that is just what Pimsleur stresses, correct tone production. Sure, you won't learn much more than travelers' survival Canto from Pimsleur, but that forms a great platform for future study. It seems that there are free podcasts from ITunes for students of Cantonese. I was directed to the Naked Cantonese series. There is also a website called Cantophilia (or something like that) that is geared mostly towards advanced beginners and intermediate students that uses video clips from tv and movies with related instructional materials. If you've already got the basics, I think there is more out there than you would think, but it seems to be on the web and not at Amazon.com.
Mark Allen
posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 5:00PM [Report]

Don't think about learning it.... just learn it. you could learn both if you wanted. But start with something... a word a day and you'll know 1000 words in 3 years... seems far away - but with 1000 words you could really speak pretty well... can you imagine being able to converse well in 3 years? That's not bad.