Sorry in advance for answering this if it's directed straight at GS.

this is just my opinion, so completely disregard it if want
I don't know about hip hop but I think it's completely situational in most genres. For example if I was collaborating and started out with a pre-picked vocalist then i'd prolly want to structure the song in the best way that's gonna fit around his/her voice a bit, but not too much that it comprimises MY style and MY artistic qualities. but if I was doing a track commissioned FOR a singer than I'd make the track to the singer's specifications and make it play to his/her strengths as much as I can. Also (I think this may answer your q the most) if I had a premade track that I was somewhat satisfied with (I'm never satisfied with anything ) and I was looking to add vocals to it I prolly would only change it minimally (if at all, this is MY track after all...the vocals will just another one of my instruments in this case), or change vocalists if need be...

that said there are many tricks to get vocals to fit better in a song...inserts such as reverb/vocoders/delay/pitch shifters/distortion/EQ/Compression can make a vocal (as well as any other sound) sit a lot more nicely (plugins like Melodyne look incredible!)

I hope that answers your question properly, sorry if I came out too nerdy or technical in the end and I'm also sorry if GS has a completely different response!

and now my Q for GS:
    I was wondering when you're doing drums if you use breakbeats sampled from other records, such as old funk and soul records, or are you solely constructing from single hits, or do you prefer to sample live drums out of the studio? also do you layer your drums thickly (such as four or five snares to get the right punch and crack)? thanks for taking the time to do this. I hope to be at the level you are one day.

[ Last edited by  Yes_Tom at 2007-7-1 05:55 PM ]

Sup, cool discussion getting started. It's cool that we can talk about music making and exchange ideas.

Katie-X: Thanks for your question. Yes_Tom gave a good answer. Creating a song is a collaboration between the singer and producer/composer. The relationship changes though depending on who's putting down the money

Yes_Tom: Concerning beat making, I'll sample stuff from vinyl records. Like a 4 to 8 bar piece. Then, I'll chop it up, take the pieces l like and re-arrange, then, efx, then mix alittle. After, I'll layer a drum beat to bring it together. Then, add some other sounds to round it out.

My drum sounds have come solely from sample beats. But, I think layering some live drums would be cool. But, live drums can make the track dirtier--so depends on what you're looking for. I think Jay-Z's "Show Me What You Got" by Just Blaze is a current example of live drums mixed with sampling (i think he plays live on it). Like all painters are different and have unique methods so goes for beatmaking. Some producers develop a signature sound and others make it a point to have no sound and be fluid like water, fitting into any genre.

For drums sounding thick and punchy, sometimes it's just about compression, eqing and levels. Do you have any links to check out your music? Alright, Peace y'all!

Wow thanks for the great answer. Interesting to know, I never knew my question would have so much different options.

Another question
I understand GS you come from an independant label, but I also understand that you're aware of how other companies work, so I wanted to ask, do artists have much say in what they wana do with their music or videos etc? Mainly music-making, like having the opportunity to write their own lyrics or compose their own song. Inevitably, independant labels usually give artist more "freedom" right? But I'm not so sure about major labels.

Sup Katie-X: I think it's up to the artist on how much say they have with the music. They can fight for what they want or they can go with the flow and let the record company (indie or major) to do things for them. There are loads of opportunities for artist to write their own material which is a good thing. But, it's up to the artist to do it.

Yeah compression and eq help a lot. I try and branch out and try a lot of different styles though and I pick up little tricks from each and every one of them and I find that layering drums....like say a snare with a heavy crack and a snare with a deep punch on it can really help to even out the sound (along with making an entirely new sample). But also in genre's like dnb you can sometimes have 4 or 5 hipassed breaks going and a tamb loop, all quantised similarly, and still have room for 3 to 5 snares and a couple kicks layered on top of eachother to round it off!

as for links to my music i lost a lot most of my stuff (as well as some of my samples) in an hd crash a while back i managed to finda couple of tracks on a cd that were a year or so old though. I hardly ever finish anything though because I'm a tweak fiend! always trying to find new sounds and process them differently etc + my music mood changes daily so one day I'll be writing a house track the next I'll be writing hip hop / DnB etc... so many tracks that I start get lost in that way...This is really only a hobby for me but I'm looking to take it way further, getting more serious with it now. college ain't helpin though haha.

here's a track I did about a year ago....took me around 2 hours or so (most of which was just spent getting the notes right), drums are really bad because drums are my least favorite part of the mix to work on because I get so caught up in trying to make them sound right! almost no processing save a bit of reverb, delay, and some subtractive eq.
http://download.yousendit.com/DE89E0B6007CB918
something I just started tonight in the process of adding sax and bass...almost have the break processed the way I want...after that it's time to resample chop and add bongos, congas, and rides...sigh
           http://download.yousendit.com/9863CAAA32951510

also I was thinking of writing up a little tutorial on making a simple beat using reason, which i assume a few of you are using (perfect starting prog imo), if anyone is interested. Just simple stuff though like making a drum track and processing it...adding a musical part and a bass, explaining what I'm doing as I go. I think this would have been really helpful when I was starting out! of course I won't make the arrangement fully, because I think people should develop their own style and technique early on...if anyone just starting out is interested in that let me know!

Another quick Q: I was also wondering wether you use hardware or software? I'm completely software atm and enjoying it! hardware is a pain in the ass to use BUT there are some synths, compressors,  and reverbs and such that software still can't compare to at all imo...just want to hear ur take on this!
if you are using software what sampler are you using? logic's built in sampler? I'm an ableton man myself!

[ Last edited by  Yes_Tom at 2007-7-2 05:02 PM ]

Yes_Tom: thanks for your sharing and questions. I haven't heard the tracks yet, but you do dnb and other dance music? I use Logic. I use to have an MPC but, now it's just laptop and microphones. Also, turntables and vinyls.

I wrote a blog on my technique you can check out if you have time:

"How-To-Make-Sample Beats 101" just look into my blog entries. Software can do everything now so really no need for hardware. But, the pre-amps, mixers, compressors, reverbs still are great to have.

peace!!

Hi~ I'm here again! hehe.

I have another question...
Are there any differences between the HK and U.S. music industry? Such as how business is done, the process of getting music out into the market, etc..

Thanks GS!

Ohh. Well that's good to know artists are still able to have their say. I always have this image that artists
are not allowed to say or do anything =\ That would have been a disaster in the music world if it were true.

Sorry for the late reply on the forum--been busy doing 24Herbs.

Musicnote: The main difference between HK and US music industry is the market size. The HK music industry works the same way except on a much smaller scale. There are unlimited ways to get your music out there. If you're an artist, make it the best possible and show your own unique style.

Katie-X: Yes, the world would be crazy if nobody had the freedom to express their own music!!

Thanks for the reply GS! Hope all is going well with 24 Herbs!!

i always wanna know this one.

why does hip hop or rap lyrics always have hatred? is it cause it is easier to create? easier to sync with beats?

maybe i'm shallow and only know the hate genre hip hop or rap music. but do you think there can be a lovely, magical lyrics and rap it out?




(i sound crazy am i???)

yulien: most mainstream gangstra rap is about hatred and stuff because for some reason that's what sells records and because a lot of the rappers that are coming up now were schooled on that stuff so it's a big part of what they know, but if you listen to earlier stuff (Kurtis Blow - The Breaks, Sugar Hill Gang - Rapper's Delight) you'll see that it hasn't always been about violence...but then again a lot of the rappers that come up from nothing have grown up in neighborhoods where violence and drugs run rampant and they are compelled to participate and conform due to peer pressure and they incorporate this into their songs because that's what they feel. A big part of rap is rapping about what you know, isn't it?

Also, not all rap these days is about hatred if you listen to the single I Tried from Bone Thugs N' Harmony's new album you'll see that it's more about repentance and the hardships of life than anything else...

Edit: That's just my opinion, I could be terribly wrong

[ Last edited by  Yes_Tom at 2007-7-26 03:11 PM ]

opinion need not right or wrong! kudos for just speaking it out! the listener has the freedom to choose to listen or not! thanks for answering though!

i get the whole 'growing' up thing. so, does tht mean in order to be a real successful or maybe influential rap/hip hop artist, one must go through 'hell' so as to be able to express???

another thing is tht with them rapping how awful life is, and teen or fresh young mind peeps are going to be influence so easily to the 'ghetto' life! they will actually wanna live like tht so they can be rich and famous like thier idol...isn't tht scary?

i know i'm gearing outta music topic...but anyway, i'm just sounding my concern. well, i guess with so much lovely pop music out there, someone or some music have to counter act it! right?

let's just hope peeps get to absorb, think, analyze, and see the reality clearly, not blurly. hahaha!! i'm going too far out...

good discussion. To me hiphop is a positive movement. I think you can blame NWA for today's 'studio gangsta rap'. Not disrespecting because I love NWA and grew up on their music. Just that alot of today's artist are using NWA's legacy as a model for their image.

What attracts me the most about hiphop is the music. I've experienced the ghetto, not from the ghetto nor ever wanna live in the ghetto. But the music is positive because it's always trying to re-invent itself. Hiphop has become the new pop music, so alot is garbage but alot is actually pretty good too. I wonder what it's gonna sound like in five years time? Peace!

Hi!Ghost Style
For u to make a song ,melody or lyrics have been written first?

Can u give some tips for making a song?

Hi Janice, thanks for your question. Actually, when I make a song, I usually have the music first,
that gives me a feeling and then I try to write something on it. Pretty simple stuff. Hope that helps and good luck on your music! peace

Thanks for your reply.
By  the way, have you joined other crew before you joined 24Herbs ?
If you have , what's the difference between them??

i've been in lots of bands before the hiphop--most was a learning experience. I've had a duo team, which was good but didn't work in the end. 24Herbs is the biggest group I've been in and the cool thing is we all get along and respect each other. So far so good and hope to make more stuff with Ya Sei Mei.